Abraham with Isaac or Ishmael?

I have been preached many times by Muslims that the bible we are reading has been changed by the church, similar to the works of Dan Brown. This story have been told many times in attempts to convert me and indeed is quite a passionate agreement. Almost similar passion displayed to the defense that MCA is not about money.

One of the great 'urban legend' is the story of Abraham and Isaac/ Ishmael which is also the 'evidence' of the conspiracy of the Jews and Christians to uphold Isaac and dethrone Ishmael.

Islamic arguments

Contrarian perspectives

So, it is clear that there is no verse in the Quran and traditions that provided the proof, hence the continual divergent among Muslim theologians in contrast with the Christian and Jews's stand.

My thinking is a bit more shallow.

Muslims believe in the 4 books - Torah (Old Testament ), Zabur ( Psalms ) , Injil (New testament ) and Quran.

Note that the earlier 3 are books that 'is in the original state and not that has been corrupted by human/church'. So far, no evidence where these real books are.It is claimed that the church has them.

(Reminds me of Ezam Mohd Nor who claimed that he has 6 boxes of proof against Anwar Ibrahim and then Ezam says that Anwar have the 6 boxes instead. )

Lets say we take the face value of the current 4 books hear what they say about Abraham and Isaac/Ishmael.

1.Torah - Isaac

2.Psalms - Indicated Isaac (the covenant he made with Abraham, the oath he swore to Isaac.105:9)

3.NT- Isaac

4.Koran - no name mentioned.

So, at best 3-1 score or 2-0.

So, take your pick on the evidences on the table and am still amazed on how people can be convinced with these arguments. (and be converted)

Anyway, to digress.

1. Paran - is a small town historically mentioned by Arab explorers etc. to be in the Sinai Peninsular, "Ibn Khaldun clearly places Faran in the Sinai peninsula, at the northern end of the Red Sea. Faran is associated geographically with Midian and with Aila (ancient Elath, modern Elat, located at the end of the Gulf of Aqaba). " So, Paran is not Mecca. (Read)

2. Lets say Paran is Mecca. Wonder how Abraham goes of with Ishmael and mom to Mecca ( probably a few years journey at those times) , stick around to build the Kaaba and then went back after the holiday. Did he bring the whole tribe or part of it? Did he leave his other wife behind with the newborn? Who was the designated leader when he is on leave?

That is easily 1500 km on foot accross desert just to go to Mecca. And he was already in the 'promised land' that God told him he would be (which is waaaaay up north)

Anyway, you believe what you believe. The devil is however, in the details.

Crossing borders

If you cross the North Korean border illegally
You get 12 years hard labour.

If you cross the Iranian border illegally
You are detained indefinitely.

If you cross the Afghan border illegally
You get shot.

If you cross the Saudi Arabian border illegally
You will be jailed.

If you cross the Chinese border illegally
You may never be heard again.

If you cross the Venezuelan border illegally
You will be branded a spy and your fate will be sealed.

If you cross the Cuban border illegally
You will be thrown into political prison to rot.

If you cross the British border illegally
You will be arrested, prosecuted and sent to prison and deported

If you are an Indonesian/Filipino Muslim and cross the Malaysian border illegally

You will get:
- My PR (Permanent Residence)
- A driving license
- Voting rights

Oxford sanctions questionnable business practices?

Awaiting reply from Oxford University and Loreal AG.


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cmillot@loreal-finance.com

Appreciate if you can forward this to your corporate communications partner in central. L'Oreal is a sponsor for a chair in Oxford University and they have chosen to work with a personality that has very low concern on diversity and environment.

Merci

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Subject: Regret in the choice of Said Business School's speaker for The Inaugural Oxford Global Islamic Branding and Marketing Forum
To: oliver.shiell@sbs.ox.ac.uk



Dear Sir

As concerned citizens in Malaysia and as volunteers to the state of Sarawak where we tried to help to locals who were marginalized and suffered.
It is with great regret to hear of the choice of your main speaker of Mohd Taib Mahmud, the Chief Ministers of Sarawak to the Inaugural Oxford Global Islamic Branding and Marketing Forum
http://www.sbs.ox.ac.uk/newsandevents/conferences/OGIBMF/Pages/default.aspx

It would be great for an exteemed business school to be extremely careful with your selection of speakers. A simple querry via internet would reveal who the speaker is and the vested interest of Tanjung Manis Halal hub, which is linked to questionable business practices. However, my concern has been on the impact of environmental deforestation and the lack of justice to the aborogines in the state where this said person is governing. Please take a look at some of my personal postings

http://amoker.blogspot.com/2009/02/worst-flood-in-baram-sarawak-since-1963.html
http://amoker.blogspot.com/2008/09/rights-of-aboringines.html
http://amoker.blogspot.com/2008/10/malaysia-continue-to-pressure-natives.html
http://amoker.blogspot.com/2008/09/introducing-kayans-and-penans.html
http://amoker.blogspot.com/2010/07/raping-sarawakians-andlive-like-king.html

The local media has repeatedly uses your university's name and the locals are wondering on how an esteemed organisation like Oxford can be so simplistic in its approach.

As such, we would appreciate a solid response from the organisors to justify its selection from the view of ethical business practices and even, Islamic governance & justice.

Cheers

Angeh, the Orang Asli in Malaysia

Angeh, however, confirmed that financial incentives were involved in the conversion of Orang Asli. He claimed that Saidon and Sharifudin told him that if he was married, he would receive the RM1,000 allocated for a Muslim couple.

According to his story, Angeh, then 18, agreed to marry his 20-something-year-old bride, Wak Chin. He said they were brought to Tambun, Perak and married together with nine other couples.

His wife had to convert to Islam as well to get married. "Her Muslim name is Aminah," Angeh said.

However, Angeh claimed he and his wife did not receive any money after their wedding.
He further claimed that Saidon had also told him that as a Muslim, he would be able to get a job at the Gombak Hospital. However, this never materialised, and today Angeh works as a grass cutter.

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